Transcription modifiée de la conférence téléphonique ou de la présentation des résultats HDFS.NS du 20 janvier. 23 h 45 GMT ◄ mutuelle entreprise

La mutuelle communautaire a mêmes objectifs que la complémentaire santé individuelle : elle vise à compléter, partiellement ou en totalité, mise de fonds de santé qui ne sont pas remboursées en la Sécurité sociale. Les employés du secteur privé et employeurs sont concernés selon la mutuelle collective, autrement appelée mutuelle d’entreprise ou mutuelle de groupe.

Rendues obligatoires depuis le premier janvier 2016, mutuelles collectives offrent beaucoup de avantages pour les salariés. Elles sont avant tout moins onéreuses que complémentaires de santé individuelle. De plus, une partie des cotisations est prise en charge dans l’entreprise.

Les employeurs ont pour mission veiller à tendre à employés une mutuelle qui répond à un cahier des charges précis, prévu par le législateur.

Qui est concerné chez la mutuelle d’entreprise ?
Tous les employeurs du clientèle privée devront avoir souscrit en or premier janvier 2016, une mutuelle collectif pour salariés. Sont ainsi concernées :
TPE et les PME
grandes entreprises et pourquoi pas multinationales
les fraternité
les fédérations
Les ayants droit du salarié, et pourquoi pas enfants, peuvent également bénéficier de la mutuelle collective. Si le contrat le prévoit, ils peuvent y être affiliés.

A l’inverse, la mutuelle européen ne concerne pas le secteur public. Les fonctionnaires ne peuvent ainsi pas y prétendre. Les travailleurs non salariés ne sont pas plus concernés. Pour couvrir leurs dépense de santé, ils peuvent s’orienter vers un contrat de prévoyance.

En principe, la mutuelle collectif est obligatoire pour accomplis salariés. Sous certaines conditions, le salarié refuser de s’y soumettre.

Quelles dépense de santé la mutuelle collectif rembourser ?
L’Accord national interprofessionnel (ANI) du 14 juin 2013, qui rend la mutuelle européen obligatoire, émane de la loi sur la sécurisation de l’emploi. L’objectif indispensable est de permettre aux employés du clientèle privée d’accéder à une mutuelle de qualité. Ainsi, la mutuelle communautaire d’une entreprise assure un socle de garanties minimales, imaginés en le législateur. Il s’agit :

de l’usage en charge de l’intégralité du ticket modérateur pour les consultations, les offres et les actes de qui sont remboursés en la Sécurité sociale
du remboursement de la intégralité du forfait journalier hospitalier
de l’utilisation en charge des frais dentaires à hauteur de 125% du tarif conventionnel
de la prise en charge des frais d’optique en tout dans période de 2 ans. Pour une correction simple, le minimum de prise en charge est fixé à 100 €
Ces garanties ont pour objectif obligatoirement figurer dans le contrat de mutuelle collective. Il s’agit du panier de soins minimum. Légalement, l’employeur n’a pas le droit de procurer une mutuelle de laquelle garanties seraient inférieures à ce seuil de couverture. Il peut, en revanche, souscrire des garanties supplémentaires : une garantie d’assistance, une plus belle prise en charge pour l’optique ainsi qu’à le dentaire, le tiers payant… Le contrat de la mutuelle fédératif a aussi l’obligation d’être responsable.

Qui finance les cotisations de la mutuelle européen ?
Une partie des cotisations de la mutuelle collective est prise en charge chez l’employeur (la part patronale). En cela, les salariés sont avantagés. L’employeur prend en charge d’or moins 50% des cotisations de la mutuelle collective, pour la partie qui correspond d’or panier de soins minimum. Le reste des cotisations est à la charge de l’employé (la part salariale).

Comment mettre à sa place la mutuelle européen obligatoire en or sein de l’entreprise ?
Avant de souscrire une mutuelle d’entreprise, employeurs ont la possibilité de soumettre choix aux représentants du personnel. Ils peuvent aussi organiser un référendum près salariés. En d’échec des négociations, l’employeur souscrit une mutuelle communautaire sur décision unilatérale.

Employeurs, renseignez-vous près votre branche pro ! Ces dernières vous recommander des mutuelles collectif intéressantes, parfaitement adaptées à votre secteur d’activité (construction, hôtellerie, restauration, agriculture…) Négociés pendant la branche professionnelle, les contrats de mutuelle sont souvent pas mal avantageux.

Depuis le 1er janvier 2016, les offres de mutuelle européen sont grandes sur le marché. Petites, moyennes ainsi qu’à grandes entreprises : intermédiaire en aplomb vous aider à trouver le contrat qui s’adapte le mieux à vos besoins. Contactez-nous !

Mumbai, 2020 28 janvier (Thomson StreetEvents) – Invitation ou présentation modifiée de la conférence sur les résultats de HDFC Life Insurance Company Ltd, 2020 23 janvier, 23h45: 00 GMT.

HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited est vice-présidente exécutive principale, actuaire en chef et actuaire désigné

HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – Distributeur en chef et directeur exécutif

* Vibha U. Padalkar

Nomura Securities Co Ltd., Recherche – Directeur exécutif

* Ajox Frederick H.

Batlivala & Karani Securities India Pvt. Ltd., Unité de recherche – Analyste de recherche

Gestionnaires de portefeuille engagés Pvt. Ltd. – Directeur Général

Mesdames et messieurs, Bonjour et bienvenue à l'invitation de 9 mois pour les bénéfices de HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited. (Instructions de l'opérateur) Notez que cette conférence est en cours d'enregistrement.

Je passe la conférence à MD et PDG Vibha Padalkar. Merci et encore madame.

Vibha U. Padalkar, PDG et directeur, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited, MD (2)

Bonsoir à tous. Merci de vous joindre à nous dans notre discussion sur nos neuf mois se terminant en 2019. 31 décembre, résultats. Nos résultats, y compris la présentation aux investisseurs, les communiqués de presse et les informations réglementaires, sont déjà disponibles sur nos sites Internet et sur les bourses. J'ai Suresh Badami, directeur exécutif, avec moi; Niraj Shah, directeur financier; Srinivasan Parthasarathy, notre actuaire désigné; et Kunal Jain d'Investor Relations.

Je passerai en revue les principaux résultats de nos résultats de 9 mois pour l'EF20 et serai heureux de répondre à toutes vos questions.

Commencer par la mise à jour des résultats commerciaux. Nous continuons de maintenir nos activités avec toutes les mesures clés. Notre part de marché auprès des assureurs privés a continué de croître dans les segments individuels et collectifs. Dans le WRP autonome, notre part est passée de 12,6% en 9 mois FY19 à 14,3% en 9 mois FY20, tandis que notre part dans le segment groupe est passée de 28,2% à 28,6% à cette date. pendant la même période.

Globalement, les primes de New Business ont augmenté de 22% en neuf ans pour atteindre F20, portant les acteurs du marché privé à 21,4%. Les APE personnalisés ont augmenté de 31% en 9 mois FY20, complétés par des innovations de produits et des taux de croissance sur tous nos canaux de distribution.

Nous avons couvert plus de 4,5 crores de vies durant cette période, soit une augmentation de 29% par rapport à la période correspondante. Notre marge d'affaires nouvelles pour l'EF20 est de 26,6%, en hausse de 260 points de base par rapport à la même période l'an dernier. La valeur de la nouvelle activité a augmenté de 45%, passant de 971 INR en 9 mois FY 19 à 407 INR en 9 mois FY 20.

Notre rendement EV opérationnel était de 19%. Notre bénéfice après impôt a augmenté de 8% pour atteindre 984 INR. Les tensions sur les nouvelles affaires ont été contrebalancées par les gains à long terme de notre livre de réserve, qui a augmenté de 27%.

Ensuite, à propos de la prise en compte de la chaîne. Nous continuons de voir la croissance de tous nos canaux de distribution avec des canaux de distribution propriétaires et d'entreprise, y compris les partenaires bancaires, en croissance de 60% et 19%, respectivement, sur la base d'un APE individuel pour l'exercice 2010. La part des canaux exclusifs a augmenté à 36% en 9 mois FY20, contre 29% l'année précédente. Notre chaîne d'agences représente désormais 14% de nos APE individuels, contre 11% pour la même période l'an dernier. Notre chaîne en direct sur Internet a augmenté de 57% au cours de l'exercice 2010. Nos efforts pour atteindre une croissance durable des courtiers ont amélioré la qualité de l'entreprise et celle-ci a presque doublé par rapport aux années précédentes.

Nous avons continué à diversifier nos schémas de distribution traditionnels et à approfondir nos relations avec 270 partenaires dans plus de 40 nouveaux écosystèmes.

Passez aux performances du produit. Nous avons maintenu la croissance dans tous les segments de produits tout en maintenant un mix de produits équilibré. Notre activité d'épargne, qui comprend les segments Unités, Égal et Non couvert, a augmenté de 32%. Notre activité de sécurité a augmenté de 32% au cours de l'exercice 2010 par rapport à l'APE dans son ensemble. Nous continuons de contribuer à réduire le risque de longévité des clients en fournissant des rentes et des revenus à long terme dans nos plans d'épargne nominaux et non nominaux.

Selon les commentaires des appels précédents, la part de l'épargne non comparable a continué de baisser, passant de 54% au premier semestre à 47% au cours des neuf premiers mois et 35% au troisième trimestre. Cela est conforme à notre stratégie déclarée de maintien d'un mix de produits équilibré. Au cours de l'exercice 2012, le pourcentage cible de sortie de l'épargne non nominale de l'exercice 2010 a été atteint au troisième trimestre.

Nous avons récemment lancé un nouveau produit, Sanchay Par Advantage, une offre unique dans le segment Par. Cela vous donne la possibilité de recevoir des primes en espèces dès la première année de votre mandat ainsi qu'une couverture à vie. La sécurité continue d'être notre cœur de métier et a représenté 28,1% de notre activité en termes de primes nouvelles affaires.

La protection totale d'APE au cours de l'exercice 2009 a augmenté de 32% pour atteindre 886 crores INR, avec une participation de 16,7%. La protection individuelle à terme était de 6,7% des APE individuels sur 9 mois, soit une augmentation de 31% par rapport à l'année précédente. Malgré l'environnement d'emprunt facile, l'activité de Credit Protect a augmenté de 21%.

Ensuite, les opérations et la technologie comme principales différences. La stabilité des affaires individuelles au 13e mois est passée de 82% à 87%, et la stabilité à 61 mois est passée de 49% à 53%. Un investissement continu dans la technologie nous a permis d'offrir un voyage amélioré au client tout en nous aidant à rendre le prix plus efficace. Nous avons récemment organisé un événement Tech Edge pour les analystes de recherche afin de partager leur parcours vers la vie HDFC. Nous avons téléchargé une présentation sur notre site démontrant les capacités de notre technologie.

En conclusion, nous sommes ravis d'avoir maintenu nos indicateurs de base et de nous concentrer sur notre stratégie à long terme pour bâtir une entreprise durable et rentable, créant ainsi une valeur ajoutée pour toutes les parties prenantes clés. Divulgation complète sur notre site – La divulgation des résultats est disponible sur notre site ainsi que la présentation aux investisseurs.

En conclusion, je voudrais vous remercier tous pour votre soutien continu à notre entreprise. Nous serons ravis de répondre à vos questions.

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Questions et réponses

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Opérateur (1)

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(Instructions de l'opérateur)

Le premier numéro provient de Hitesh Gulati de la ligne Haitong Securities.

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Hitesh Gulati, Haitong International Research Limited – Analyste (2)

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Premièrement, en termes de persévérance, nous constatons une nette amélioration. Existe-t-il un produit ou un canal spécifique où nous le voyons? Est-ce un choix global pour chaque segment?

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Vibha U. Padalkar, PDG et directeur, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited, MD (3)

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Voici Hitesh si vous regardez la diapositive 27. Si vous regardez également à travers nos chaînes. Donc, directement du canal de l'agence, de la banca et des segments clés, et même si nous le comparons au spectacle de l'an dernier, c'est définitivement hors de question. Un peu d'amorti et une partie du stress que nous avons vu dans les sociétés affiliées, vous savez, étant donné la nature et le fait qu'après 5 ans, il y a très peu d'hameçons sur la façon de garder un titulaire de police. Mais au-delà, tout est.

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Hitesh Gulati, Haitong International Research Limited – Analyste (4)

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Oui Et puis, deuxièmement, en termes de notre taux de relaxation, je pense que nous avons probablement abaissé notre taux de mémorisation. Pouvez-vous également en donner un aperçu?

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Niraj Ashwin Shah, directeur financier, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited (5)

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Donc, pour Hitesh, cela correspond largement à nos attentes d'une hausse des taux d'intérêt. Nous avons donc regardé le dernier aussi. Ce n'est donc rien, pas différent. Donc, en substance, le type de risque qui diminuera correspond à notre taux de rendement attendu. Donc, très, très similaire à ce que nous avons partagé la dernière fois, Hitesh.

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Hitesh Gulati, Haitong International Research Limited – Analyste (6)

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D'accord. Et enfin (difficultés techniques) OpEx. Nous pensons donc que l'expérience d'exploitation OpEx est de 1,9%, je pense que le VNB. Il s'agit donc principalement d'une amélioration de l'acquisition d'OpEx, si j'ai raison, si je ne me trompe pas?

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Vibha U. Padalkar, PDG et directeur, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited, MD (7)

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(1.) – Quelle diapositive êtes-vous sur la diapositive 28, non?

Oui, l'effet d'échelle consiste à découvrir le coût.

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Hitesh Gulati, Haitong International Research Limited – Analyste (8)

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D'accord. Cette acquisition d'OpEx est donc moins importante cette année? Est-ce que c'est …

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Vibha U. Padalkar, PDG, PDG, PDG et directeur de HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited (9)

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Ouais, parce que c'est juste un article à coût fixe. Et la base est plus élevée, nous n'avons donc pas à l'augmenter proportionnellement. Par exemple, certains canaux, comme notre canal d'agence, se sont très bien comportés. Ils sont donc en hausse de 66% par rapport au début de l'année. Et comme vous le savez, le coût élevé de notre agence est raisonnablement fixe. Ce levier est donc clairement visible.

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Opérateur (10)

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Un autre problème est Harshit Toshniwal de la gamme Jefferies.

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Harshit Toshniwal, Jefferies LLC, Recherche – Analyste des stocks (11)

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Bonne année. Une – 2 questions. D'une part, lorsque nous regardons la comparaison FY19 avec le FY20 à 9 mois, nous avons donc évidemment gagné une part d'environ 30% d'économies sans importance, en partie grâce à ULIP et en partie aux économies. Cependant, malgré ce changement, lorsque nous examinons l'amélioration des marges du mix de produits, comme présenté dans le rapport, ce n'est que de 30 points de base. Mais même si je prends une grande marge de 10%, 10%, 15% ULIP et égale à 25%, 30% d'économies non nominales, cette amélioration ne devrait-elle pas être plus importante?

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Vibha U. Padalkar, PDG, PDG, PDG et directeur de HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited (12)

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Je souhaite avoir obtenu ULIP 10%, 15%. Je pense que je serais heureux. Mais juste pour la conception des produits et l'économie commerciale, nous aurions du mal à obtenir ces chiffres.

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Harshit Toshniwal, Jefferies LLC, Recherche – Analyste des stocks (13)

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Mais 10% – Je veux dire 10%. ULIP et 15 pour cent Néanmoins, seulement une amélioration de 30 points de base de la marge nette par rapport à des changements dans la gamme de produits par rapport à des changements drastiques de garantie de rendement. Pensez-vous que les marges – que manquons-nous dans ces chiffres?

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Niraj Ashwin Shah, directeur financier de HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited (14)

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Il y a donc 2 ou 3 choses, non? La première est ce que Vibha vient de mentionner, les marges liées aux unités ne sont nullement proches du nombre à deux chiffres que vous avez mentionné, loin de là. Deuxièmement, les marges impaires dépendent également de l'évolution des taux d'intérêt.

Et nous en avons discuté avec le fait que nous continuons d'ajuster les variations des taux d'intérêt en conséquence, mais nous sommes un peu en retard dans notre capacité à l'utiliser, comme dans le cas d'une rente, un peu comme l'épargne non nominale. . Donc, cette espèce affecte également les marges impaires elles-mêmes. Nous devrons donc l'examiner en gardant à l'esprit tous ces éléments.

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Vibha U. Padalkar, PDG, PDG, PDG et directeur de HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited (15)

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Oui De plus, nous développons un certain niveau de conservatisme dans le domaine de la protection. Nous avons toujours soutenu qu'il est trop tôt pour que l'industrie dise que nous l'avons piraté pour la protéger. Et c'est l'objectif principal. Nous l'avons conservé ainsi. Nous avons été l'un des premiers à avoir déménagé dans cet espace et nous avions beaucoup à réparer dans ce domaine.

Nous sommes donc prudents quant aux allégations en termes de KYC, de risque d'assomption au sens des informations disponibles. Lorsque nous nous déplaçons vers des villes non métropolitaines, encore une fois intuitivement, comme le montrent les données, l'expérience de la réparation est très différente. Un certain conservatisme y a donc également pris racine.

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Harshit Toshniwal, Jefferies LLC, Recherche – Analyste des stocks (16)

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D'accord. Madame, le deuxième problème concernait davantage la protection des produits elle-même. Donc, comme vous l'avez dit à juste titre, c'était avant. Encore une fois, une chose qui est très difficile à prévoir est la mortalité. Et je veux juste savoir quelle est votre expérience avec les premiers compartiments en termes de – peut-être la fraude dans les nouvelles polices que nous vendons ou les expériences de mortalité que nous créons dans ces produits. Comment – Quels sont les commentaires de qualité sur votre expérience au cours des 2, 3 dernières années?

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Niraj Ashwin Shah, directeur financier de HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited (17)

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Pardonnez-moi, regardez, la plupart du livre de sécurité est signé médicalement. Donc, généralement, vous voyez une expérience très saine au cours des deux premières années, nous l'appelons la mortalité de vie de choix. Donc généralement les 2 premières années après la vie sont assurées médicalement, l'expérience est généralement très bonne. Ce n'est donc qu'après la troisième ou la quatrième année que vous verrez réellement à quoi ressemble la table commune de mortalité finale. Donc généralement en quelques mois – 24 mois ou même 36 mois dans certains cas – l'expérience est assez solide.

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Harshit Toshniwal, Jefferies LLC, Recherche – Analyste des stocks (18)

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D'accord. Et voyons-nous encore la troisième année pour une grande partie du livre?

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Niraj Ashwin Shah, directeur financier de HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited (19)

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Vous voyez, le marché a vraiment changé. Nous sommes donc passés, disons, des seuls médicaments d'ordonnance du livre de couverture, et selon les conditions de réassurance dans lesquelles nous nous trouvions – nous avons en quelque sorte réussi à nous détendre un peu. Donc, différents livres sont à différents stades d'évolution. Mais la plupart du livre de sécurité est signé médicalement. Par conséquent, nous ne faisons pas cela – l'expérience de troisième ou quatrième année, comme nous l'avons vu au cours des deux premières années, nous ne voyons pas vraiment trop.

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Harshit Toshniwal, Jefferies LLC, Recherche – Analyste des stocks (20)

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D'accord. Et bien.

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Niraj Ashwin Shah, directeur financier, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited (21)

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Aussi la première année, la première année, vous verrez des réclamations frauduleuses qui sont généralement également rejetées. Ces facteurs nous aident donc à acquérir une expérience de première année assez décente.

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Harshit Toshniwal, Jefferies LLC, Recherche – Analyste actions (22)

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À la fin, j'étais …

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Représentant de l'entreprise sans nom (23)

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Donc, pour le même modèle, nous avons accumulé beaucoup de décalage en termes de destination, de canal à canal. Et je pense que la sélection, même en termes de personnes dans lesquelles nous allons et obtenons un mandat, est assez bien équilibrée.

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Vibha U. Padalkar, PDG, PDG, PDG et directeur de HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited (24)

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De plus, nous examinons les nombreux filtres de risque et revenons à ces assurés pour leur demander plus loin dans KYC. L'équipe de surveillance des risques le fait activement. Et s'ils ne sont pas satisfaits, nous devons prendre des mesures pour approfondir ce qu'est la qualité des entreprises au lieu de rejeter le procès.

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Harshit Toshniwal, Jefferies LLC, Recherche – Analyste actions (25)

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D'accord. Ou peut-être vos perspectives de protection de la croissance à partir de maintenant? La dernière question.

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Vibha U. Padalkar, PDG, PDG, PDG et directeur de HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited (26)

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Nous restons des taureaux. Par exemple, nous avons augmenté de plus de 40% au troisième trimestre et trimestre par trimestre, mais 46% plus précisément. Mais j'ai toujours été d'avis qu'en Inde, la croissance de la protection sera la courbe en U. Tout le monde saute sur ce wagon, jouant une guerre des prix, a raison – et la seule raison pour laquelle je dis que c'est parce que nous étions là et l'avons fait.

Donc, très intact dans l'histoire à long terme. Et parce que vous en avez besoin, très clairement. Et toutes les mesures que vous connaissez sur le bas de gamme – la grande différence de protection, les personnes vivant plus longtemps, c'est tout. Mais est-ce toujours une victoire? Je ne pense pas. Je pense qu'après un certain temps, il doit être construit en brique.

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Opérateur (27)

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Un autre problème vient de la ligne Nidhesh Jain d'Investec.

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Nidhesh Jain, Investec Bank plc, Unité de recherche – Analyste (28)

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Tout d'abord, sur la rente. La croissance a légèrement diminué depuis cet exercice. De plus, nous avons remarqué que l'âge moyen des rentes est passé de 58 à 59 ans, y a-t-il donc une certaine concentration ou concentration sur les prix dans le secteur des rentes? Ou …

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Vibha U. Padalkar, PDG et directeur, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited, MD (29)

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Nous croyons donc en la gestion du risque de rente, car le facteur le plus important est vraiment les pourcentages de rente. Il y a toujours la tentation d'y rester – un peu plus longtemps avec les bons taux d'intérêt. Nous avons augmenté d'environ 10% toute l'année ou l'année dernière. Et comme vous le dites correctement, le premier trimestre a été assez solide et le troisième trimestre a été un type de performance très modeste. Mais nous rattraperons.

L'autre partie est que si nous incluions les avantages à long terme de Sanchay Plus et de produits similaires, nous envisagerions alors une juste ou presque le double de ce qui serait observé si nous envisagions une rente unique. Voilà donc comment nous le considérons. En fait, lorsque nous livrerons notre présentation aux investisseurs à la fin de l'année, vous verrez un autre type de classification basé sur la rentabilité du produit, pas seulement l'étiquetage du produit.

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Nidhesh Jain, Investec Bank plc, Recherche – Analyste (30)

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Oui oui Deuxièmement, en termes de protection, quelle sera l'étendue de la protection, car cette protection salariale limitée freine également la croissance de certains de nos collègues de l'industrie. Alors, quelle sera la croissance du volume si vous pouvez donner ce chiffre?

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Vibha U. Padalkar, PDG, PDG et directeur, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited (31)

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Dans le futur ou pour quelle période parlez-vous?

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Nidhesh Jain, Investec Bank plc, Unité de recherche – Analyste (32)

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Q3 ou 9 mois dans cette période.

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Vibha U. Padalkar, PDG, PDG, PDG et directeur de HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited (33)

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Dans l'ensemble, nous avons progressé de 15% d'une année sur l'autre en ligne avec l'APE, séparément au troisième trimestre. Quant à l'individu, nous progressons de 46%. La durée des crédits trimestriels séparés a été quelque peu atténuée en raison de tout ce qui se passe dans l'environnement macroéconomique. Mais si vous regardez la partie garde sur la diapositive 16, vous voyez également certains canaux qui fournissent leur partie garde. Nous sommes donc très prudents sur la protection, mais comme je l'ai dit, calibré. Il doit s'agir d'une stratégie ascendante entièrement gérable.

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Nidhesh Jain, Investec Bank plc, Recherche – Analyste (34)

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Mais pouvez-vous cuire cette croissance de 46% en volume et en valeur, ou assurer une croissance assurée? Car ce qui se passe, c'est que ce produit de protection des bas salaires fausse également la croissance.

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Vibha U. Padalkar, PDG, PDG, PDG et directeur, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited (35)

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Oui Nous avons donc une combinaison des deux. Nous étions vraiment en retard en ce qui concerne les salaires limités. Nous avons donc commencé avec une période plus longue. Si vous le regardiez pour une seule période, si vous regardez notre croissance NOP, ce serait 21 pour cent. Et si vous regardez la croissance de la taille de nos billets, ce serait 23%. Donc très similaire aux années 20.

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Nidhesh Jain, Investec Bank plc, Unité de recherche – Analyste (36)

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Franchement, c'est vraiment pour moi.

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Vibha U. Padalkar, PDG, PDG, PDG et directeur de HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited (37)

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C'est donc presque 50-50 par rapport à votre croissance globale.

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Représentant de l'entreprise sans nom (38)

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Oui, je pense que l'objectif final est également de regarder les clients uniques que nous ajoutons. Vous avez raison au sujet du salaire limité, donc cela doit être une bonne vente pour le client, compte tenu de ce qui est approprié pour le salaire limité et où le client veut payer le salaire régulier pendant une longue période. Et je pense que notre stratégie est plus orientée client.

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Nidhesh Jain, Investec Bank plc, Unité de recherche – Analyste (39)

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Oui oui Et enfin, encore une chose. Pensez-vous que les prix des titres pourraient augmenter dans l'industrie l'année prochaine? Parce que nous entendons que les réassureurs sont susceptibles d'augmenter leurs tarifs.

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Vibha U. Padalkar, PDG, PDG, PDG et directeur de HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited (40)

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Un peu tôt. Je pense que les entreprises devront appeler comment elles gèrent généralement leurs chiffres, leur solvabilité, etc. et quelles sont les perspectives. Nous, comme vous le savez, philosophiquement, bien sûr, nous ne voulons pas écrire une entreprise déficitaire. Alors oui, je pense que les taux devront augmenter. C'est une question de quand, pas de quand.

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Opérateur (41)

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Un autre problème vient d'Ajox Henry de B&K Securities.

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Ajox Frederick H., Batlivala & Karani Securities India Pvt. UAB, Unité de recherche – Analyste de recherche (42)

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Madame, ma question continue avec la question précédente sur l'expansion de 190 points de base sur l'impact des dépenses. Dans FY & # 21; 21, si je veux dire, nous serons en compétition à un rythme très élevé. Ces avantages seront-ils donc inversés lorsque la croissance sera stabilisée et que leurs coûts OpEx resteront une part plus importante du coût?

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Vibha U. Padalkar, PDG, PDG, PDG et directeur de HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited (43)

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Nous avons posé cette question l'année dernière et même l'année dernière. Je pense que nous n'avons rien d'insoutenable ou d'inattendu dans notre stratégie. Dans l'ensemble, votre compréhension est que si vous avez une distribution équilibrée, nous avons un mix de produits équilibré. Mis à part certaines choses normatives ou macro qui sont en dehors de nous et échappent à notre contrôle et ne sont pas visibles aujourd'hui, ce devrait être une courbe ascendante lisse.

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Ajox Frederick H., Batlivala & Karani Securities India Pvt. UAB, Unité de recherche – Analyste de recherche (44)

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D'accord. Et encore une question sur le commerce de détail via HDFC Bank. Quelle est la tendance là-bas? Ar tai buvo aukštyn arba žemyn nukreipta kreivė, ar tiesiog tendencija per tam tikrą laikotarpį?

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Vibha U. Padalkar, „HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited“ direktorius, generalinis direktorius, generalinis direktorius ir direktorius (45)

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Tai buvo kreivė aukštyn. Galbūt nematysite procentais. Kai pažvelgsite į 16 skaidrę, jie gali būti nematomi, nes kiti dalykai galėjo išaugti greičiau, tačiau proporcija atrodo ne taip, kaip ji pasikeitė. Bet kai aš turėjau žiūrėti į pasitraukimo procentą – nuo gruodžio mėnesio, tai labai aiški aukštyn kylanti kreivė. Taigi labai, labai palaikanti. Ir aš manau, kad tai yra tinkamas pasirinkimas tokiam „HDFC Bank“ klientui.

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Ajox Frederick H., „Batlivala & Karani Securities India Pvt. UAB, Tyrimų skyrius – Tyrimų analitikas (46)

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Gerai. Ir kaip mes sugebėjome valdyti „OpEx“ santykį? Palyginti su pirmąja puse, mes galėjome padaryti daug geriau per 9 mėnesių laikotarpį? Taigi kokių papildomų žingsnių jau ėmėtės?

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Vibha U. Padalkar, „HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited“ direktorius, generalinis direktorius, generalinis direktorius ir direktorius (47)

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Taigi pora dalykų čia. Viena yra tas svertas, apie kurį aš kalbėjau. Taigi, kai mes parduodame daugiau ir paprastai tai įvyksta 3-iojo ketvirčio pabaigoje iki 4-ojo ketvirčio pabaigos, tačiau pradeda veikti fiksuotų išlaidų svertas. Taigi, taip ir nutiko. Taip pat, kai aš parduodu šiek tiek daugiau nominaliosios vertės, yra, kaip jūs žinote, nominalus pelnas, atsižvelgiant į išlaidas, o ne vienintelis elementas, tačiau deklaruojamos premijos yra tai, kas eina akcininkams sąskaitą.

Taigi tai yra visų šių veiksnių derinys. Ir apskritai fiksuotos išlaidos mažėjo. Kintančios išlaidos, be abejo, konkurencinė aplinka yra stipri ir kiekviena rupija yra ta, kad mes išleidome kintamąsias išlaidas per savo P&L. And so that strain will always be there, but fixed cost leverage and having a tight lid on fixed cost is really what has managed to get us up.

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Ajox Frederick H., Batlivala & Karani Securities India Pvt. Ltd., Research Division – Research Analyst (48)

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Any color on FY '21 margin trajectory?

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Vibha U. Padalkar, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – MD, CEO & Director (49)

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So we feel enthused to continue on this journey. And there are several levers, and that's why we feel fairly enthused by that. There is a product mix lever, then there is an expense lever just — that we just talked about. Then the overall volume because of product innovation, that gets us to the volumes that you see us doing time and again. It is a tight control overall.

And also, I think we sometimes underestimate that a lot of our partners also are quite happy to be engaged with us. So despite always having a temptation to tie up to someone else because someone else is on the fringes offering something more. I think the — all the tech interventions that we have so that it makes the life of the partner easier in terms of integration of the journey, as well as the size of our balance sheet because ultimately, say in credit protect, they do want the size of the balance sheet to be able to withstand any shocks. So it's a combination of a lot of things, wherein you start becoming an insurer of preference.

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Operator (50)

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The next question is from the line of Prayesh Jain from Yes Securities.

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Prayesh Jain, Yes Securities (India) Limited – Executive Vice-President (51)

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Just a few questions. Firstly, on the non-par business, you said that you've already achieved the exit rate that you had targeted for Q4 in Q3. So first of all, what was the exit rate in Q3? And secondly, what do you target for Q4?

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Vibha U. Padalkar, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – MD, CEO & Director (52)

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So if you look at Slide 16, we've given Q3 numbers. So our exit rate in Q3 as of quarter was 35%, as of December was slightly lower and balanced product mix is what we see. So we'll see our par going up slightly on the back of our new well received new product launch that I mentioned in my opening comments, Sanchay Par Advantage. And so that kind of share transfer between non-par and par to some extent, is something we would expect to see in quarter 4.

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Prayesh Jain, Yes Securities (India) Limited – Executive Vice-President (53)

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Okay. And secondly, on the VNB margin front, are there any assumption changes with regards to any of the products, which has kind of moderated VNB margins?

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Vibha U. Padalkar, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – MD, CEO & Director (54)

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No, there have been no assumption changes. And also a point I want to make, is that because there are different practices, this VNB margin is fully factored in expenses and not annualized expenses.

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Prayesh Jain, Yes Securities (India) Limited – Executive Vice-President (55)

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Okay. Okay. And lastly, on the protection piece of the business, you mentioned that the re-rating or the increase in reinsurance rate is some time away. But what we understand is that the reinsurers are talking about a significant increase in terms of the reinsurance rate. So whenever that happens, how do you think that the industry would react? And how would the VNB margins then pan out if — for HDFC in particular?

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Vibha U. Padalkar, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – MD, CEO & Director (56)

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Yes. So I think you must have misunderstood. What I meant was yes, the reinsurance companies are asking life insurance — life insurers to increase the premium, that is already upon us as an industry. My point was as to how individual companies, whether they reprice, to what extent, reprice might be a little bit away just given that we are in quarter 4. And a lot of companies might not want to rock the boat in quarter 4. I also mentioned that it is inevitable that prices will go up for term, question is when they will go up. Whether they'll go up immediately or people will wait until quarter 1 of next year. That will be an individual call.

To your question as to how much there will be an impact, I think it will be a function of, if prices go up. It could also be virtually no impact, wherein you are passing on the prices because anyway term rates in India are cheaper than a lot of the developed countries. And so really, if you were to realistically see what is the risk and the underlying profile that we are covering, it would be very much in line for the quality of life versus other parts of the world.

So I see this going up. We ourselves have not really firmed up as to the — all the implications of this. We will have to see in terms of, take a holistic picture as to what is the quality of life, where are we writing, how much is metro, how much is younger people that we're writing, what are the natural hedges. So lots of aspects that we need to take into account.

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Prayesh Jain, Yes Securities (India) Limited – Executive Vice-President (57)

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Okay, okay. And lastly, on the ULIP part of the business, what kind of growth do you see going ahead?

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Vibha U. Padalkar, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – MD, CEO & Director (58)

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See, again if I were to go to Slide 16, we don't drive the product mix at a company level, it really depends on underlying channel and sub channel and some of (the movers), right? So on Slide 16, that's why we had put this one out years ago is to explain this concept. So if my agency channel, like it is doing now, has been one of the fastest movers and so has, for example, my online channel, then what they sell is what will influence total company growth. While — and on another hand, my bancassurance channel does very well, then you will see a little bit of more of ULIP in the — at the total company level. So at the company it's really an amalgamation of the underlying channel growth.

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Operator (59)

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(Operator Instructions)

We'll take the next question from the line of (Raj Rishi), who is an individual investor.

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Raj Rishi, – Private Investor (60)

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There are some proposals for life insurers to be allowed to sell health insurance. So if that's the case, in HDFC family, will it be divided between the HDFC ERGO and HDFC Life, any — just comment on this?

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Vibha U. Padalkar, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – MD, CEO & Director (61)

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Yes. So I'm not sure of such a proposal being there. Have you heard of something?

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Raj Rishi, – Private Investor (62)

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Yes, there was some IRDA chief talking about some feedback he is gathering. And then (he can take decision accordingly).

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Vibha U. Padalkar, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – MD, CEO & Director (63)

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Yes. Not that I've heard of anything, but hypothetically speaking, really what we're looking for is to enhance our life products and not necessarily to play in the same arena as some of the other insurance sectors. So from the customer's point of view, we do believe that it is a kind of a one-stop shop, wherein he can go for — to get his medicals done and get everything insured.

So we are looking at long-term coverage and not like a general insurer who is typically looking at a short-term coverage. So this is a very different product than just, say, taking an indemnity product, and we want to play in that space. Really, our intention is to expand the health offering, and a lot of innovation can be done in the health space that doesn't exist in India today. And we're really interested in expanding the (ply) other than really cannibalizing just what is being (seen).

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Raj Rishi, – Private Investor (64)

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Okay. And ma'am another thing, the biggest insurer in China is, sort of had a ecosystem of start-ups has something to do with doctors, et cetera, apps. So you have something like that in (your case)?

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Vibha U. Padalkar, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – MD, CEO & Director (65)

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So yes, we have a lot of prototypes. And as you know, from a tech perspective, it's something that we've been talking about. We feel very enthused about creating ecosystems. But I think we need to — we are in the process of engaging even through sandbox and other means so that we have that ecosystem wherein we can connect all those dots to be able to use alternate data that is available. As well as enthuse the customers to come and have a more broader conversation and engagement with us rather than a very tactical one of buying a life insurance product.

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Operator (66)

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That next question is from the line of Madhukar Ladha from HDFC Securities.

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Madhukar Ladha, HDFC Securities Limited, Research Division – Research Analyst (67)

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Ma'am, just a question again on the margins. So given the shift in product mix, our margins don't seem to have gone up as much as we would have expected them to. And in the explanation, one of the explanations was the interest rate's also moving down. So I wanted to understand in what way does this impact the margins? Because is it that the Sanchay Plus that we sold over the last 9 months, the margin of there has got sort of reduced because our expected interest rates going into the next several years has gone down, and we'll be receiving the cash flows later. Is that what has happened?

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Vibha U. Padalkar, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – MD, CEO & Director (68)

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So I'll start off, and actually, Madhukar, we have had a detailed discussion on this with one of the earlier callers. And also the fact that unit linked that you see having gone up. So quarter 3 unit linked was 33%, again in the pull of the market. So from — well, while you see 9 months at 28%, it has gone up to 33%. And unit linked does have a tempering effect on margins. So if you will work out the math, and we also had a discussion with the earlier caller, that is nowhere in the zone of 10%, 15% that was quoted. And so that is certainly there.

I also mentioned, just to recap very quickly on the earlier conversation, that on term also, we are somewhat cautious. Because of, as you move into interior India and a very different kind of risk profile that we are encountering. How do we deal with that and especially when there is not enough of data, KYC visibility, our claims experience. So there too, we are cautious. And hence the term margins in interior for us will have to be very different. Yes, it's certainly a space we are enthused by, but the margin profile can be very different to what it is in metro. So it's a combination of a lot of these aspects.

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Niraj Ashwin Shah, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – CFO (69)

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And on non-par, it's more in terms of how we are basically looking at repricing prospectively in light of where the interest rate environment is going. It's not much to do with the cash flows and the matching of the cash flows, that's a separate risk management discussion. But it's more to do with the calls that you want to take on spread and make the customer proposition viable at any point in time, it's fairly limited to that.

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Madhukar Ladha, HDFC Securities Limited, Research Division – Research Analyst (70)

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If we were changing our assumptions in — for the term products and…

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Vibha U. Padalkar, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – MD, CEO & Director (71)

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Sorry, just to put things into context. Quarter 2, our margin stand-alones were 25.4%, quarter 3 stand-alone is 24.7%. So you're talking about 0.7%. And given the higher uptick in unit linked, it's not way off than what optically it looked like.

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Niraj Ashwin Shah, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – CFO (72)

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Lower — significantly lower non-par.

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Vibha U. Padalkar, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – MD, CEO & Director (73)

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Yes.

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Unidentified Company Representative (74)

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Also in non-par (and so) annuities (where the company) profits actually emerged from the spread. And now with the interest rates falling, if we do not quickly reprice, like Niraj alluded to earlier, there will always be some time lag because we cannot reprice every day. So there will be some time lag, so — before you can reprice and get back to the original margin. So there will be some leakages in the margin as interest rates fall down.

So that is what has happened in the — when we started off in the first quarter, interest rates were high, and then in the quarter 2 and quarter 3, the interest rates started falling down. But there will always be some time lag and hence a leakage. So hence you'll see a little bit of a drop in the margin of the same product.

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Operator (75)

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The next question is from the line of Nischint Chawathe from Kotak Securities.

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Nischint Chawathe, Kotak Securities (Institutional Equities) – Senior Analyst (76)

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Three questions from my side. First of all, just if you could articulate your strategy to increase individual protection through the banca channel. I know there has been, I guess a fair amount of improvement in this month, but if you could just kind of explain as to what you are doing and what you intend to do? And maybe if at all you can put a ratio as to where you intend to take it, but at least some strategy around it?

The second is I wanted to double check if — which product is doing very well — which par product is doing very well in the online and direct channel? Is it Sanchay Par or any other product? And finally, we see some negative investment (foreigns) in 3Q, so just trying to understand that one?

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Vibha U. Padalkar, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – MD, CEO & Director (77)

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Yes. Hi, Nischint. So on your first question on banca, our exit rate in December was close to 5%. And couple of years ago, we were just about rounded off to 2%. So — and on a pretty large base, as you know. So that is trending very well in terms of where and what are we selling there.

So we continue to sell both the regular term, which is what we have been selling, as well as the more recent limited pay, which seems to be the flavor of the season nowadays. So which is fine, but we are doing more, but I just want to make the point that we have been consistently selling the more longer-term, term product that was the early mover that we were, that's what we were selling. So it's a combination of both. We're also pretty active on the VRM channel as well as some of the non-branch banking channels. Suresh, you want to add anything?

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Suresh Badami, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – Chief Distribution Officer & Executive Director (78)

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So I think what Vibha mentioned, we have managed to move the 2% term penetration to a 5%. But if you really look at what can be possible across a whole host of even our banca partners, it could be double digits in terms of what kind of term percentage share can be.

Three, too I think it's also important that we continue to look at the term penetration on 3 aspects: one is, of course this premium; the second is in terms of unique life covered and also in terms of the total sum assured, right? And I do believe that look, if we are able to continue the focus in terms of taking the 5% up to 10%. And some of our partners, where we have banca, are maybe on a smaller base in double digits, that is something that we can continuously move even with our larger partners. So the work will be in terms of innovation, the work will be in terms of offering things like preapproved, easier to buy, easier to take — click. Those kind of possibilities are there in terms of how we can take it up much higher.

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Vibha U. Padalkar, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – MD, CEO & Director (79)

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Where we hesitate is that just playing the price war. Because — and really, I had a long answer to one of the earlier callers that that's not really what we believe in, because term in India is very nascent, and companies have to be cautious as to that, we have very little claims experience. And we are saying that despite being one of the early movers in this space.

And so even in HDFC Bank, we want to be cautious that it's overall protection that we want to give to HDFC Bank's customers and not only to see in a very fungible manner as to who is the cheapest. And hence the very calibrated brick-by-brick kind of a growth. And it has taken us 2, 3 years to go from about 1.5% to 5% as against doing that in 1 year. So that was the first question.

Second is that which par product that you had for online? Now largely it is the Sanchay Par Advantage, that is picking up very well. But even in the past, we've had some of the earlier par products, we have a ClassicAssure, Super Income products. These 2 — these couple of products have also been received very well in online. And your third question is on the negative investment variance. Do you want to take that, Niraj?

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Niraj Ashwin Shah, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – CFO (80)

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Yes, so this is, Nischint, largely about (are they) trying to change the shape of the yield curve through, I mean what we (hear as in) populations list is that's largely the reason for the negative variance in this period, as the difference between the long-term and the shorter-term interest rates are trying to be — we're trying to bring them closer rather than getting the yield curve flatter than what it was in the previous periods. So that does affect the bond yields for us as well as the returns. So that's largely the reason.

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Operator (81)

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The next question is from the line of Neeraj Toshniwal from Emkay Global.

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Neeraj Toshniwal, Emkay Global Financial Services Ltd., Research Division – Research Analyst (82)

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Congrats on very strong persistency. I just wanted to know have you been build up this (as a mission) — in your assumption? Or it's yet to be taken up in your margin at the annual review?

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Vibha U. Padalkar, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – MD, CEO & Director (83)

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Our annual review happens in March. So that will — you will see that in quarter 4. Is that…

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Neeraj Toshniwal, Emkay Global Financial Services Ltd., Research Division – Research Analyst (84)

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So yet we'll have the buffer right now in terms of taking up the…

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Vibha U. Padalkar, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – MD, CEO & Director (85)

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Well, we haven't changed anything this year so far.

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Neeraj Toshniwal, Emkay Global Financial Services Ltd., Research Division – Research Analyst (86)

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Okay, okay, okay. And the second question was on the claims paid on the P&L, it looks very high, benefits paid out. Any particular reason to that?

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Vibha U. Padalkar, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – MD, CEO & Director (87)

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Yes, yes. So most of that, about INR 2,500 crores to INR 3,000 crores that you see in there is because of maturities. It is just that given that a lot of these policies were sold, say, 10, 15 years ago, and now are — especially par products, wherein the term is over and it's payback time, that's where you see the money being paid out to them. So it's very much in the normal course of business.

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Neeraj Toshniwal, Emkay Global Financial Services Ltd., Research Division – Research Analyst (88)

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Nothing lumpy experience in terms of certain claims in the — any of the portfolio?

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Vibha U. Padalkar, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – MD, CEO & Director (89)

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No, when you say lumpy, it is lumpy because an entire cohort would be ready for us to pay, but nothing that is not factored in by our actuarial team. It's under the terms of the agreement. If we were to look at actual policy terms, just to give you some numbers, so our — about INR 9,000 crores last year became INR 13,000 crores, of which about INR 2,100 crores was as per the policy terms, the delta. And so that is just very much — that's claims by death, which increased by INR 700 crores and money back, there is maturity payouts and so on.

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Niraj Ashwin Shah, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – CFO (90)

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And the claims are largely in line with the expectations for the book and for the entire book.

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Neeraj Toshniwal, Emkay Global Financial Services Ltd., Research Division – Research Analyst (91)

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Okay. Okay. And one more question is on the credit life. I think we have grown individual protection quite smartly. But on a Y-o-Y basis, in 3Q, I think credit life has been quite muted. Any particular reason to that?

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Vibha U. Padalkar, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – MD, CEO & Director (92)

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It is just overall general slowdown in terms of what is happening in terms of — in the NBFC space. But if you were to look at overall, the growth has — we have held onto the growth of 21% growth. Even if you look at Credit Protect itself overall, not as — not on an APE basis, but if you were to look at Credit Protect, that has grown by 21% stand-alone Q3. So it has not really tapered off. So if I just were to read out the numbers, quarter 1 was 21%, quarter 2 was 22%, and quarter 3 was 21%, and hence YTD is 21%.

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Neeraj Toshniwal, Emkay Global Financial Services Ltd., Research Division – Research Analyst (93)

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This is on an NBP basis you're talking about?

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Vibha U. Padalkar, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – MD, CEO & Director (94)

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Yes.

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Suresh Badami, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – Chief Distribution Officer & Executive Director (95)

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Yes. I mean given that — look, this business, obviously, depends majorly on the core disbursement of our partners. I think the ability for us to be able to manage at multiple fronts, we have a large cross-section of partners with multiple verticals within the partners. So we have seen a shift in terms of disbursements. Some of our large partners have done fairly well, so there has been growth there. We've managed to add a certain number of verticals with existing partners. We have added a few new partners.

We've looked at value penetration across some of the verticals. We've looked at products like riders, which could be added on. We have looked at how we can cover — increase cover through level products. So it's finally a combination of how do you take the entire sum assured back to the customer across various verticals. So even if there's been a slowdown, hopefully that will get picked up in the coming year and the core disbursement itself will increase.

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Srinivasan Parthasarathy, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – Senior EVP, Chief Actuary & Appointed Actuary (96)

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And Credit Protect is more appropriate to really see it on a new business premium basis, given that APE is really just a conversion factor based on certain kinds of products that go within that. So that's what we would guide you to.

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Operator (97)

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The next question is from the line of Adarsh P. from Nomura.

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Adarsh Parasrampuria, Nomura Securities Co. Ltd., Research Division – Executive Director (98)

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Congrats on a good set of numbers. On the — on this particular year, right, we've had great success starting off with Sanchay. Just wanted to understand — and like always, competition would have copied guaranteed return products. Just wanted to understand the pricing competition here. The question is more that most innovations that we've done over the years have either been built on distribution, branding and a lot other things. Is this year's big innovation which drove numbers a little bit based on, say, a pricing hook, which now a lot of competition would have caught up with, and how do you see the sustainable VNB there?

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Vibha U. Padalkar, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – MD, CEO & Director (99)

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Frankly, Adarsh, if we did not discourage the sale of Sanchay Plus, and I say that in a right manner, this will — Sanchay Plus will do exceedingly well, almost like it did in quarter 1, despite competition being there or not being there. So it is not because of competition coming in that Non Par Savings is now 35%. It is just because philosophically, we believe that — believe in a balanced product mix.

So that is something that — there is a first mover innovation. It also gives us time to embed technology. So it then becomes a complete package rather than it being a very tactical kind of a conversation to say okay, I have now copied your product, and it's one and the same. It isn't, because it's also what we sell coupled with how we sell it. And overall the brand promise in terms of your repudiation ratios, all of that put together. So that's really how we see it.

And each one of our product innovations, even going back, and that's something that we also showcased in terms of whole host of products that over the life cycle, so if you — this is on Slide 15, since you mentioned products. But if I were to pick up — pick out a couple of products, back in the days when pension was not known, we were known as a pension company. It's all very relevant today, but we talked about pension in the year 2003, '04. And then you have YoungStar, which is a child plan; your Click 2 Invest, which was really to say, unit linked can be bought at a very low cost along with a cover; if you look at Cancer Care or even 3D — Click 2 Protect 3D Plus, we were the first large-scale player in online space and so on.

So these will always be — first to market will always be — will always command the kind of premium and first point of recall. So that when a customer is buying something, he or she will evaluate us, maybe take their own informed choice, but not being called to the party is something that will not happen, is something we are very, very confident of that. So to your question, these innovations, I think — we would like to think that it's a holistic package as against just a tactical product that can be copied. And the same thing is happening now we see with Sanchay Par Advantage.

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Adarsh Parasrampuria, Nomura Securities Co. Ltd., Research Division – Executive Director (100)

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Understood. Ma'am, just quickly, just understanding, like how would have — like depending upon the pricing in the market, how would have our non-par or guaranteed return product margins changed from, say, start of the year to where we are today? Is it dramatically different, given that many people want to copy it? So how have the VNB margins changed of, say, a Sanchay Plus product which you sold in April, May and where we're sitting in January today?

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Vibha U. Padalkar, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – MD, CEO & Director (101)

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Pretty much similar, except for like Srini mentioned to one of the earlier callers, there's always — there could be a time lag. And typically, repricing can't happen before a month of the last time you've repriced. So it could be that we have put out some rates on Sanchay Plus and then interest rates have changed, but we are not able to reprice it to the new norm. And hence we have, to that extent, on new business, there is some level of compression of our spreads and before we reprice and catch up. So barring that, we will hold onto it.

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Adarsh Parasrampuria, Nomura Securities Co. Ltd., Research Division – Executive Director (102)

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So barring the lead lag of repricing, the spreads are not changed in the last 8, 9 months?

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Vibha U. Padalkar, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – MD, CEO & Director (103)

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Correct.

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Operator (104)

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The next question is from the line of Sanketh Godha from Spark Capital.

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Sanketh Godha, Spark Capital Advisors (India) Private Limited, Research Division – VP (105)

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When I look at the EVOP growth, EVOP growth is 16 percentage, which is the ultimate source of profitability or ROE is ultimate source of profitability, but the VNB growth is 46%. So just can you…

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Vibha U. Padalkar, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – MD, CEO & Director (106)

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Sorry, EVOP is 19%.

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Sanketh Godha, Spark Capital Advisors (India) Private Limited, Research Division – VP (107)

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Our EV is 19%, EVOP growth is 16%, if I am right there?

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Vibha U. Padalkar, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – MD, CEO & Director (108)

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(is the) EVOP growth.

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Sanketh Godha, Spark Capital Advisors (India) Private Limited, Research Division – VP (109)

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It was INR 22 billion last 9 months.

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Vibha U. Padalkar, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – MD, CEO & Director (110)

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You mean rupee value EVOP growth, yes.

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Sanketh Godha, Spark Capital Advisors (India) Private Limited, Research Division – VP (111)

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Yes, yes, yes. So it is 16%, while our VNB growth is 45%. So this divergence in VNB growth and EVOP growth was never in the past, probably. But this divergence has significantly increased in the current quarter — current 9 months, basically. So just — because ultimately, the EVOP growth or the profit is the ultimate source of profit for an insurance company. So I just wanted to understand why this divergence is there or it will converge over a period of time? I understand the fact that unwind is the major reason for the low — lower EVOP growth, but just I wanted to know whether this trend will continue? Or how is it going to happen going ahead?

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Niraj Ashwin Shah, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – CFO (112)

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So Sanketh, one way to — one way of looking at it is how fast is the base expanding and what percentage of the new business value coming. So as the base starts expanding, the impact of unwind is something that is going to keep getting more and more. As far as the other buckets are concerned, if you see the operating variance, that's likely to always be a small part of this entire process, so will the assumption changes be.

The growth in unwind, basically it's a function of interest rates going forward as well as the base effect. So as the base keeps expanding, the absolute rupee value of unwind will also keep increasing. The rate at which it increases depends on the interest rates going forward. The NBC in terms of absolute rupee amount, again, is a function of 2 things. It's a function of how profitable the new business that you're writing and also the growth that you will achieve going forward.

So there are a lot of these factors that are at play at all points in time. But just to keep it simple, if you were to take out operating variances and assumption changes effect between the 2 components, unwind and the new business contribution, you can — given that the interest rates over a period of time are likely to go down, you can — you could basically almost neutralize the impact of the bigger base of — for the unwind and the rate at which it'll unwind. So large part of the growth is likely to — will — large part of the growth in EVOP will continue to come from NBC.

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Sanketh Godha, Spark Capital Advisors (India) Private Limited, Research Division – VP (113)

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Okay. But is it because of the asset allocation, which has internally changed towards Sanchay and Credit Protect, therefore, the unwind rate is a little lower and therefore, the EVOP growth is — the VNB growth is not translating into EVOP growth?

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Niraj Ashwin Shah, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – CFO (114)

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Sorry, Sanketh, can you come again on that one?

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Sanketh Godha, Spark Capital Advisors (India) Private Limited, Research Division – VP (115)

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So my question was that, the asset allocation between the Credit Protect and the guaranteed products, where we were running a positive ALM, which resulted into the lower unwind or the lower EVOP growth compared to what VNB growth has grown at, basically, the growth on VNB is much higher compared to — is my understanding right there that the allocation of the assets between the products — reallocation of the assets between the products has led to the lower EVOP growth?

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Niraj Ashwin Shah, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – CFO (116)

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Not directly, not really, Sanketh. See, the thing is, if you were to look at the Credit Protect portfolio without the non-par savings product also, the assets would largely mirror the liabilities on a stand-alone basis. If there is an opportunity to — there, you have to basically see where the yield pickup is coming from. Now the longer assets on the government side will — given that we are on an upward sloping curve, the longer end of the government securities are giving a higher yield than the shorter end of the government securities. The question there is only in terms of the spread that comes from the corporate bonds.

Now that is something that you could look at. The spreads have been narrowing. So that's also something that plays a part in this. It's not about losing yield in the Credit Protect portfolio which is resulting in this. We have to basically look at it on a composite basis. If, for example, the Sanchay Plus wasn't there for a particular period of time, the margins would have been different from what they were in quarter 1. The Credit Protect margins are a function of both the mortality experience, the cost of acquisition as well as the yields that we are getting from the allocated assets. So it's not a direct correlation that you can draw between the 2.

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Vibha U. Padalkar, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – MD, CEO & Director (117)

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See, if — the composition of the EVOP INR 2,545 crore, if I were to look at that, the unwind is INR 1,069 crore, the new business profits are INR 1,407 crore, and you have an operating variance of INR 70 crore, that's what adds up to INR 2,546 crore. Similarly INR 2,201 crore, the unwind is INR 1,072 crore, you have your new business of last year INR 971 crore, and you had operating variances of (INR 158 crore).

Now you rightly said, lower unwind. That is just a macro factor. Like we have mentioned, the NBC has grown by 45% and slightly lower investment variances because whatever specifics of that particular period of last year, both are positive but slightly lower this year. So that is really the 3 items that are sitting in.

Now in terms of interest rates, when — as they're falling, you will have this lower unwind that is more in terms of structural, but it is not into perpetuity that it's going to continue. It really depends on the — what the macro factors are. And as we see today and all the inflation-led fear that are always hovering around, to say that this is going to go into a southward interest rate scenario also is something that we don't know.

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Sanketh Godha, Spark Capital Advisors (India) Private Limited, Research Division – VP (118)

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So is it fair to assume that whenever the new business premium growth or new business growth is much stronger, in that particular year, this divergence will emerge. And gradually, when the growth moderates or becomes — become normal compared to what we have recorded in 9 months, then the convergence that's coming in the VNB growth and the EVOP growth will happen?

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Niraj Ashwin Shah, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – CFO (119)

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Yes, provided you're writing profitable products in the new business, yes. The contribution of NB — new business value to EVOP will continue to increase with high growth, absolutely yes. But also, it's important that the new business is being written with high profitability. If that is not the case, then you can, again, have a higher contribution coming from the unwind.

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Sanketh Godha, Spark Capital Advisors (India) Private Limited, Research Division – VP (120)

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Got it. Fair enough. And just 2 data points. One, 55% of our business in the 9 months was banca. So just wanted to understand the market share or the contribution of HDFC Bank in it and our market share in HDFC Bank currently? And how it has moved over a few quarters?

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Vibha U. Padalkar, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – MD, CEO & Director (121)

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It's (about) 85% of banca.

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Sanketh Godha, Spark Capital Advisors (India) Private Limited, Research Division – VP (122)

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85% of the banca. Okay. And our market share in HDFC Bank broadly?

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Vibha U. Padalkar, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – MD, CEO & Director (123)

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So market share, when you say — so this is our market share, 47. You mean, out of the bancassurance partner?

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Sanketh Godha, Spark Capital Advisors (India) Private Limited, Research Division – VP (124)

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Within HDFC Bank, how much market share we enjoy right now.

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Vibha U. Padalkar, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – MD, CEO & Director (125)

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Yes, about — it'll be 2/3, 1/3.

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Sanketh Godha, Spark Capital Advisors (India) Private Limited, Research Division – VP (126)

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Okay. Perfect. And just wanted to know the persistency what we report is including single premium? And given we have written a lot of annuities in the last 6, 7 quarters, the persistency has sharply improved to close to 90%. Now I just wanted to understand the trend, if I exclude the single premium, how the persistency has behaved for us?

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Vibha U. Padalkar, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – MD, CEO & Director (127)

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Very similar. The — directionally, the trends are very similar.

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Sanketh Godha, Spark Capital Advisors (India) Private Limited, Research Division – VP (128)

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And if you want to quantify the absolute number, excluding single premium, what would be our 13th month persistency?

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Vibha U. Padalkar, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – MD, CEO & Director (129)

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So we believe that the right way to report is the IRDA method. But if I were to exclude, then it is very similar. Same delta.

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Sanketh Godha, Spark Capital Advisors (India) Private Limited, Research Division – VP (130)

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Delta of — yes, I understand this delta would be same. But just wanted to understand that the absolute number, whether it is 80s or 82 because 90 — same like-to-like number, what would be the number basically, if I exclude the single premium?

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Vibha U. Padalkar, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – MD, CEO & Director (131)

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For us, it doesn't make sense. I'll tell you why. Because when we look at EV and we just had a conversation with EV, the same single premium products are extremely accretive, then we should be looking at EV without the single premium product. So it is all part of business.

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Sanketh Godha, Spark Capital Advisors (India) Private Limited, Research Division – VP (132)

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No, the reason I…

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Vibha U. Padalkar, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – MD, CEO & Director (133)

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I can understand if you're looking at low-margin group business, for example. But in our minds, it is all part of business. It's just the way the policy — it's exactly like — I would then say that, for example, the new flavor of the season of having limited pay on term, then we should be looking at that persistency separately, limited pay on unit-linked, we should be looking separately. So it does — there is a disconnect with really underlying value accretion.

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Sanketh Godha, Spark Capital Advisors (India) Private Limited, Research Division – VP (134)

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Yes, that's a fair argument. But just wanted to understand because we are heavy in that business. Definitely, from a margin point of view or profitability point of view, it contributes. But how we stand compared to peers because they are not that big in single premium.

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Vibha U. Padalkar, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – MD, CEO & Director (135)

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So really, there we would urge that if IRDA were to come up with — right now, we're following what IRDA has asked us to follow. So something else would be a very artificial construct. What I can assure you is that similar kind of an improvement last year versus this year has happened there, too.

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Niraj Ashwin Shah, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – CFO (136)

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Just to elaborate slightly on Vibha's point, the thing is, the argument if you were to just take the full continuum, single pay, limited pay and regular pay, whatever holds true for single premium, holds true for limited pay as well. So then you become — then you're really getting into too many kind of categories of products on which you want to then start looking at persistency. So if you want to exclude single premium, then you'll have to exclude some part of limited pay. All of that somehow just doesn't make — it's a question of just creating more reports around it, in our view.

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Sanketh Godha, Spark Capital Advisors (India) Private Limited, Research Division – VP (137)

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Okay, got it. And finally, the slowdown in annuity is predominantly because of the deferred annuity slowdown? Or are both deferred annuity and immediate annuity you have little control to growth, basically the interest rates not being favorable?

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Niraj Ashwin Shah, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – CFO (138)

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So largely, it's what we've mentioned earlier on the call, the growth on deferred annuity has been fairly robust, though our deferral period continues to be limited to 3 to 4 years. The growth in that has been fairly robust. If you want to call it a slowdown for immediate annuity, then a large part of the immediate annuity business has — is basically 2 elements, like we said. The first one is, we've been very cautious on the way we price annuity products, and we're happy to lose business in a particular month or a quarter. At the same time, a significant part of that business has come through in the long-term income options of first Sanchay Plus and now Sanchay Par Advantage as well.

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Vibha U. Padalkar, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – MD, CEO & Director (139)

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And to add to what Niraj said, if we were to include the long-term options of Sanchay Plus along with this, you will see a robust growth of about 87%. So for us, we are looking at a longevity solution and not only — and we are fairly agnostic as to whether it comes in the form of annuity, which is a single premium or a regular premium long-term protection via Sanchay Plus.

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Sanketh Godha, Spark Capital Advisors (India) Private Limited, Research Division – VP (140)

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But the risk management framework for a regular premium paying product versus a single premium paying product would be significantly different because with the reinvestment risk…

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Vibha U. Padalkar, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – MD, CEO & Director (141)

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And smaller margins.

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Sanketh Godha, Spark Capital Advisors (India) Private Limited, Research Division – VP (142)

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Yes, because the reinvestment risk in the regular premium paying product is much higher compared to a single premium product.

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Vibha U. Padalkar, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – MD, CEO & Director (143)

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No, but on that front, if you had been there on our Q1 call, that reinvestment risk has been fully hedged. So theoretically, what you're saying, absolutely agree. But various hedging mechanisms that we have to ensure that, that reinvestment risk is taken care of.

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Operator (144)

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The next question is from the line of Shreya Shivani from CLSA.

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Shreya Shivani, CLSA Limited, Research Division – Research Analyst (145)

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I just wanted the management's comments on solvency ratio. While I see that the percentage has increased in the 9 months, currently at 195%, and it's comfortably above the required 150%, though if I compare it with some of our peers in the market, we are on the lower end per se. So what is our target? Are we trying to increase it? Or are we comfortable at this level? Any comments on this?

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Vibha U. Padalkar, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – MD, CEO & Director (146)

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Yes, we actually think that others are overcapitalized. And perhaps — and each of the companies might have some specific issue as to why they need that excess capital in their company because it does really often result in dilution, which is not required. So our Board-approved policy is for us to hold a solvency of between 180% to 200%, and we are very comfortably and consistently in that zone. For us, solvency has not been a limitation to growth. And even — I mean, in the past, we have put out some slides which show that even if we were to grow by 50%, that we have enough solvency to be able to do that.

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Operator (147)

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(Operator Instructions) The next question is from the line of Rishi Jhunjhunwala from IIFL.

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Rishi Jhunjhunwala, IIFL Research – VP (148)

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Vibha, you mentioned that within HDFC Bank, we have had almost about 2/3 wallet share on the premium side. Just wanted to understand, has that materially changed in the last year or 1.5 years?

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Vibha U. Padalkar, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – MD, CEO & Director (149)

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Yes, because of open architecture. Before that, it was 100%. I'm not sure I understand.

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Rishi Jhunjhunwala, IIFL Research – VP (150)

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No, the reason why I'm asking is like, so our growth in the banca channel has been fairly subdued. So I'm just wondering whether is it — what is the reason behind that? Is it primarily that HDFC Bank as a channel has not been able to sell as much? Or is it something which is specific to us?

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Vibha U. Padalkar, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – MD, CEO & Director (151)

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Yes. So HDFC Bank overall, if you were to look at September of last year, we also sold, if you recall, a fair amount of unit-linked via HDFC Bank. So this time, we were very keen on having a balanced product mix and also we — and of course, markets as well. And so it is a combination of things. So we sold much lower levels of unit-linked through HDFC Bank. And so some of that big — if I were to remove the unit-linked impact of — that's sitting in the base, then the growth is a lot healthier kind of growth. So it's really a combination. Also, like we discussed with some of the earlier callers, we are also ramping up on our term presence through H Bank, which also has much lower ticket sizes. So that, too, wanting to engage with customers on our online term proposition. So I think it's a combination of things. And also, I think our proprietary channels have done well. So overall in the mix, as a percentage to total, it is lower than it has been in the past because of faster growth of some of the other channels.

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Rishi Jhunjhunwala, IIFL Research – VP (152)

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And so going forward, I mean how do we look at product mix in your banca channel?

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Vibha U. Padalkar, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – MD, CEO & Director (153)

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So in HDFC Bank and some of the other banca channels, we have — especially in HDFC bank, given the kind of customer profile, not having a UL presence at least of about 35%, 40% is not a viable option. So that will always be there. That's why you see 36% here. And going up — in the past few years, it's been about 60-odd percent. May not be as much, but at least in the range of about 40-odd — 40% or 45% is something that we see with HDFC Bank. All other products, as you can see here, is also trending very well. So we expect that to continue, including the more recent Sanchay Par Advantage has also been received very well.

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Suresh Badami, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – Chief Distribution Officer & Executive Director (154)

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I think we also need to look at the context that this year, we have had 2 blockbuster products, both in terms of Sanchay Non Par as well as the Sanchay Par Advantage. Now when — over the years, we have been looking at distributing products on the ULIP side to HDFC Bank. I think they have done a phenomenal job in terms of looking at the product shift on the — both the non-par and par, which they can take across to the customers. So like Vibha mentioned, it's also a question of growth we get through the right product to the customer. And it's not just a question — some years, you will probably see the base effect, which is coming in what she mentioned. So there was a time when we thought there was a good product on the ULIP side, we scaled up, and then we followed it up with one on the non-par and one on the par. So you — and frankly, it's not really right to look at it from a quarter-to-quarter or half year. But you will find over a period of time the entire incremental growth that HDFC Bank is able to get. And we will then our share continues, we will see the overall growth at our end, which will then be pushed up by the proprietary channel growth which we are anyway getting.

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Rishi Jhunjhunwala, IIFL Research – VP (155)

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Fair enough. And on persistency, would you contribute (sic) (attribute) the expansion, the significant expansion, that we've seen this year versus last, to an extent to the change in product mix as well, considering ULIPs for us have gone down materially and probably that was a source of lower persistency?

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Vibha U. Padalkar, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – MD, CEO & Director (156)

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To some extent, yes.

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Operator (157)

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The next question is from the line of Ravi Naredi from Naredi Investment.

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Ravi Naredi, Naredi Investment Private Limited – Analyst (158)

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Ma'am, we are looking every month the data of life insurance premium and it is too volatile. Sometimes HDFC getting very good growth, or for sometime it is flat. Any reason?

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Vibha U. Padalkar, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – MD, CEO & Director (159)

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So I think this is one of the few industries that puts out monthly numbers. And I would really urge that people — insurance is a long-term business. So really what happens, some months somebody is up, somebody is down. Generally, I think if you were to look at holistic indicators, new business should be one part of it, important part, but also equally important should be persistency, it should be your renewal premium, it should be your profitability (from) claims, (from a) sale, attrition. So, so many stakeholders are there for a company. And it's really that kind of a score card that is, we believe, is the right way of looking at the business. So I agree that perhaps people should stop looking at this new business and especially on a month-on-month basis.

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Ravi Naredi, Naredi Investment Private Limited – Analyst (160)

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Okay, ma'am. And second, ma'am, if one pays the premium of first premium, after how many months you will transfer and they never pay the second premium onwards, when you transfer this fund to profit and loss account or any other account?

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Vibha U. Padalkar, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – MD, CEO & Director (161)

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We will not transfer this to profit and loss account. We will — this will go and sit in a — if it is a ULIP product, it will go and sit in a discontinued policy fund and will be paid out after 5 years to policyholders.

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Operator (162)

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The next question is from the line of Prakash Kapadia from Anived PMS.

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Prakash Kapadia, Anived Portfolio Managers Pvt. Ltd – Principal Officer (163)

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On ULIP, again, could you give us some sense what is hitting the segment, not necessarily at our end? Because capital markets have been fairly bouyant and mutual fund flows are steady. And what kind of trends are we seeing as we are entering the seasonally strong quarter for ULIPs?

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Vibha U. Padalkar, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – MD, CEO & Director (164)

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So for us, ULIP — and exactly like you said, that ULIPs have always been one part of our offering, but not the most important part. To take, for example, our agency channel, our agency channel ranking in the private sector might be #4 now, and we've covered a lot of ground there. But even then, the top 3 players in the agency channel, for example, have a very significant unit-linked component. So for them — I think this question is more directed towards them and those who sell over 50% unit linked. I think there, I would imagine 2, 3 things that kind of ail the product, which is fundamentally a good product, but what ails it is, one, is that there is a 5-year lock-in and people can't get their hands on the money, no matter what, even in a medical emergency. So my view would be similar to some PPF or something if they're able to get it. Second is that on the — at the same time, costs incurred by the insurance company are upfront in terms of acquisition costs and insurance companies make no money if a person were to stop paying his or her premiums or exit after even 5 years. So that is the second. Third is that there is, at least as of now, which has changed in the recent products regulation, that what you can charge is also very, very restricted. And if a person — you've spent all this money in getting the customer and then he pays only one premium or like my earlier caller said only 1 month in a monthly premium, then pretty much you have lost everything. So this is a high-risk kind of a product for the company as well. And also, persistency tends to be bad at the end of 5 years because often the policyholder has erroneously bought it as a 5-year, 5-pay product when actually it should be a long-term wealth accumulation product. So there are a lot of structural things that can be fixed for it to become a great win-win proposition for the customer as well as the company.

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Suresh Badami, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – Chief Distribution Officer & Executive Director (165)

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Yes. So just to add. I think the opportunity out there for ULIP is equally large. I think it's a question of, as a strategy, where is it that you want to place these products. So we've always believed that you need a balanced product mix. We've always looked at how do we train our people on the ground, how do we make sure there's a right sell. There is a customer for UL and there is a customer for a par or a non-par product, so is it something that we can drive in a balanced product mix and get the overall growth. And rather than just pushing out maybe a very high skew of UL, which probably, like Vibha said, has other smaller issues right now as a product. So there is a huge opportunity out there. I do believe that, look, a lot of customers who are in the mutual fund space can more than gain by looking at some of the new innovative products which are coming out through the insurance, they are like our Click 2 Invest, for instance, it's a huge opportunity or a Click 2 Wealth. So those markets are very large, and it will be a matter of time where the — some of the mutual fund distributors and IFAs will start looking at this as a proposition that they can add on to their customers.

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Prakash Kapadia, Anived Portfolio Managers Pvt. Ltd – Principal Officer (166)

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That is helpful. And secondly, on the government-backed schemes, is that a large part to our APE terms? Is that also driving growth, because we've been reading you are profitable on the government-backed schemes also. So what are we doing right, if you can give us some sense?

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Vibha U. Padalkar, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – MD, CEO & Director (167)

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Yes. So for us, it's profitable business. It's very small. And typically, it's — it was launched when the government launched it in the month of May. So it's also lumpy at that point in time. But it isn't really — it hasn't grown at the same level that rest of our APE of 31-kind-of percent growth that we've seen. And it's very, very miniscule in the whole scheme of things, but profitable. If you were to ask us as to what is — what has caused the profitability? This is a simple pure term. And the quality of life really depends on the quality of life of the customers of our partners. And in this case, the heavy lifting was done by HDFC Bank and the quality of lives of the customers of HDFC Bank have been — has been very good and have — the claims experience has been very much within what our actuarial team has priced it. And hence, we — this is a profitable book for us.

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Suresh Badami, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – Chief Distribution Officer & Executive Director (168)

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I think the concern for a product like PMJJBY initially also was that you get a little bit of negative selection, which comes in. I think given that you had a very good customer base through HDFC Bank and we managed to scale the business up much larger and then actively drove it as per the Finance Ministry mandate, we got scale, we got a good selection of customers. And overall, the profitability came in. But if you were to have a smaller base on which you have sold this to a wrong customer base, obviously, it will lead to losses.

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Operator (169)

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The next question is from the line of Ajay Bodke from Prabhudas Lilladher.

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Ajay Bodke, Prabhudas Lilladher Pvt Ltd., Research Division – Research Analyst (170)

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Ma'am, could you briefly dwell on the management's medium-term plans for the 2 wholly-owned subsidiaries? Over the medium term, how do you see the growth panning in both of them?

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Vibha U. Padalkar, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – MD, CEO & Director (171)

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Yes, sure. So HDFC Pension has been going from strength to strength. We ended December 31 at about INR 7,700 crore. And if you look at the kind of trajectory, we ended March '19 at about INR 5,200 crores, so very, very steep growth that you see. And more importantly, the market share that you see in the 9 months has grown from 25% to 30%. So we are the #1 pension company in terms of the new business that is coming to — towards pension. Also, this is a feeder system into the life company as far as annuity is concerned, et cetera. Now if — let's see what the budget has to say, and thereafter also in terms of the government's thought process. But we have been an early believer in the humongous opportunity of pension. And this is going back to the year 2003, '04. And in fact, the Sar Utha Ke Jiyo tag line itself to some extent is very much closely linked with the entire need for longevity protection. And so we're very happy with the pace of progress. We also now have a license to — for a point of presence. So we do not have to only depend on our partners. We have great partnerships, but now we have our own point of presence. And that's something that has happened in this year. And there too, we're growing — going from strength to strength. And also, March tends to be a good month because 80CCD is just very, very attractive for — and up to — and also the INR 50,000 retail tax benefit. So that, too, we are expecting a fairly good pickup. It is a pull product, it is one of the cheapest pension products in the world. As far as our…

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Suresh Badami, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – Chief Distribution Officer & Executive Director (172)

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So just to add onto that. I think the fact that we have — this product by itself is a separate wallet share in terms of what the customers should be looking at, given a large customer base who we can reach out to, we feel there's a huge opportunity, and we are looking at how we can look at upsell and cross-sell and take this product across to our entire base of customers. Two, even in terms of the fund performance that we have got, clearly, we stand out in the market across all lines of the particular product. As a brand, as HDFC as well as the growing awareness of pension, like how Vibha mentioned, I think all of that is coming in together, and we believe that the retail subscriber base and the corporate subscriber base will continue to grow. We've been ranked #1 on the corporate subscriber base and overall in terms of the PFMs in the net fund flow on the private business. So it's a very, very large opportunity. They're very bullish. And like Vibha said, I think the flow-through in terms of annuity down the line is probably something that is most exciting about this particular opportunity.

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Vibha U. Padalkar, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – MD, CEO & Director (173)

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And the other subsidiary?

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Suresh Badami, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – Chief Distribution Officer & Executive Director (174)

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Yes. So I mean, look, we set the HDFC Life — International Life and Re business. We have a very stable business. They have registered a good growth in terms of their revenue. They tend to — they are continuing to trend positively both on the technical and the net profit. We — if you read about it last year, this subsidiary of ours got rated by S&P Global Ratings on a BBB, and they have come back and maintained that rating for the outlook as stable, which by itself is an achievement. We have managed to look at expanding our partnerships and geography in that particular market. So we are fairly bullish in terms of what we can do, both in terms of reaching out to the NRI base in that respective market as well as working on the reinsurance space with the ceding insurers.

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Operator (175)

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The next question is from the line of Prayesh Jain from Yes Securities.

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Prayesh Jain, Yes Securities (India) Limited – Executive Vice-President (176)

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Just one thing on the profit breakup that you shared, and I think that is a very useful information. But if I look at the way new business strain is eating up into the profits, what do you — how do you see this trending ahead? And the way we are writing protection premiums, this would only increase. And so — and the dividend paying capability. And so all those points, do you think that the profit growth might actually turn negative in the future, if we continue to write these kind — this kind of protection premium?

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Vibha U. Padalkar, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – MD, CEO & Director (177)

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No, not at all. And in fact, for us this is, again, a very important aspect, that we are both delivering Indian GAAP robust profits as well as growth in our new business contribution, growth in embedded value, EVOP. So it's various triangulations of all of these aspects. And it is little bit of erroneous understanding that non-par or protection is the one that causes strain and unit-linked does not cause strain. If you were to look at unit-linked, does cause strain, might not be on solvency, but certainly causes the classic strain wherein — and especially, given that persistency for a lot of players has not been as good, it has caused even more strain. So there isn't that much difference between the different segments. It is really a function of growth, which is why you see it as INR 15.7 billion.

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Niraj Ashwin Shah, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – CFO (178)

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And if the quality of the book that has been written in the past continues to be steady, then the back book emergence will — is likely to be higher than the new business strain. The new business strain also is a function of the base effect. As you expand in scale, you are likely to get operating leverage over a period of time, that should help contain strain. Over a period of time, the back book if — what I just mentioned, if the quality is sustained through persistency, you will see that. The trajectory of this really depends on the kind of products that you write. Because if you were to just look at the classical lens of IRR from a shareholder perspective or payback period, some of these new high VNB margin products do have a longer payback. So that is something from an emergence perspective, it could take a little longer than some of the products which have a shorter payback period. But the trend is likely to be positive.

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Operator (179)

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Thank you very much. That was the last question in queue. I would now like to hand the conference back to Ms. Vibha Padalkar for closing comments.

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Vibha U. Padalkar, HDFC Life Insurance Company Limited – MD, CEO & Director (180)

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As mentioned earlier, the detailed disclosure on our results is available in our investor presentation. I would like to thank you all for participating in this quarterly results call. Thank you.

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Operator (181)

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Thank you very much. On behalf of HDFC Life, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, ladies and gentlemen. You may now disconnect your lines.

Transcription modifiée de la conférence téléphonique ou de la présentation des résultats HDFS.NS du 20 janvier. 23 h 45 GMT ◄ mutuelle entreprise
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